This is the entire released recording of the Jonestown suicides. There is an historical importance to what you hear going on in the recording. There is also a sociological weight that is impossible to ignore. It is this exact sort of thing that leaves me eternally wary of the mythology that is perpetuated in religion and this cult of belief that so easily springs up around people and their attempts to grapple with the unknown.
I am particularly interested with the one open attempt to talk sense into Jones from the congregational member Christine Miller. In the face of so much calculated madness it is the singular voice of sanity that she provides that gives me the strength to face things like this.
The anger I feel when I hear this is bottomless.
The way that this one man was able to break these people down over the years until they were hopelessly beyond their own humanity is so alien and so chilling that I can't really comprehend it.
No matter how hard this is to hear, I think it's imperative that it is available to us as a people because the only way out of this idiocy is to face it with honesty and clarity.
Unfortunately, my faith in humanity is so weak that I know this sort of thing is simply part of our makeup and a part of our future regardless of how aware we are to its presence in all of us.
What a fucking nightmare.
I remember the Time magazine there on my grandmother's coffee table. The vat was there as were some of the dead. I was ten.
I was crying, trying to get my head around what I was reading, and finally I asked her, "Why, grandma? Why would this happen?"
And her answer, brutally honest (an honesty for which I will always be grateful), through her own tears, was, "I don't know, baby, I don't know."
That spoke volumes.
Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
Fair enough.
But the same goes for those who remember history.
We are condemned to repeat history, period. And there's nothing much we can do about it.
Here are some links if you care to go further into this stuff:
Alternative Considerations of Jonestown and Peoples Temple. A site from the San Diego State University Department of Religious Studies. Lots of fairly objective information including tons of FBI gathered tapes from the Peoples Temple.
The Wiki page on Jonestown.
Jonestown, from the Rick A Ross Institute. The Ross Institute is a clearing house of sorts on the subject of cults.
I think you can take it form there.
Tuesday, March 31, 2009
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15 Comments:
This stuff tears me up every time. I can see how people get lost trying to figure out how this could possibly happen. I generally end up putting it alongside other "unexplainables". However, anytime anyone mentions it i can't help but look it up. It's the kids that get to me every time.
Someone once said, "Man can not bear very much reality" or something like that. My heart does not burn to fully understand the purpose of the universe. Nor will I lean on "faith" to explain it all. I much prefer hazy renderings of truth by way of the abstract and take from it what I will. Religion is nothing but another manifestation of power and control. There is no trancendental signifier, I'm sorry to tell.
Don't be sorry, I'm not.
Also,
I work with an older guy who is from Cambodia and while he is a model employee, he's completely batshit crazy. I can guarantee you that he is a survivor of the Khmer Rouge. One can only imagine the horrors this man suffered and lived through. Though it was politically motivated, it is not unlike the actions of Jim Jones. I guess my point is that these events truly represent all that is incomprehensible with regards to man in the first place.
When 1 person (with help from maybe another 100 or so) can convince mothers to kill their children, I see a pretty trancendental signifier there. Not much of a good one though.
Perhaps Jim Jones was the TS for his victims and that is what I protest.
They probably were thinking just that, but i'm thinking he was a TS in a just the plain old bad person sense.
The douchebags I deal with on a daily basis make me think less of the human race as it is, so knowing the details about Jonestown really fucked me up. The music in the background of the tape was really creepy. That was music and not people moaning, right? If we're doomed to repeat history, then what's the point in knowing it? I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think I benefit from knowing about a guy who walks into a nursing home and starts blowing people away or a guy who just up and flips out and cuts off a guy's head. I know it's not really the style of this thing (not knocking it; I love to bitch), but does anyone know of any uplifting stories that don't have to do with tax write offs or religion?
Sure. Here's an uplifting story. Only you have the power to control the person you are in this life. History repeats itself because it's a process and we are a part of it. That never means we give up and turn bad. It means we acknowledge that each of us is as capable as any other to do great things and to do terrible things. And from there we work on making the most of what we have because once it's over, it's over. The biggest mistake you can make is to pretend that this stuff doesn't happen. You don't have to surround yourself in it, just never ignore that it is a part of all of us. Me, I have to know ugly. I have to never forget it's there. The moment I do, I'm done.
Well said. The problem I have with the first world these days is that we seem to look forward to the inhumane and abnormal things people do. The good in people is boring, so we ignore it. We don't notice the face; we notice the scar. So if eternal recurrence is true, some of us are stuck being smart-asses and assholes forever. Hopefully I'll be more articulate the next time I write this note. You in?
As you well know, sir, I will indeed be a total smart-ass as well as an total asshole for as long as I live. This is without doubt. Money in the bank.
A boner is uplifting, right?
That is brutal to listen to, what with the kids and that one ridiculously calm lady stepping in to ask the older kids to help pacify the younger ones...wicked.
I don't believe that history repeats itself but I do see this as a part of human nature. Two things that stand out in that regard --
1.there are a hell of a lot more followers in this world than leaders.
2. people do the darndest things when they are afraid.
It's important to remember that this event was part of a major crisis for these people. They had just been visited by a U.S. Congressman and during this event they also find out he was murdered by one of their own. It's quite clear to all involved that their little fantasy world is over; and considering the sacrifices they had already made to make this thing happen, they are destitute and brain-washed (largely by their own doing after years of applying themselves to this mission). Top that with the fact that these people obviously weren't doing so well back home (not very strong willed people).
But I agree with Roberto, they simply followed the wrong guy (the Southern Baptist Church is starting to sound like a dream organization to me right now). It all sounds a lot like Germany circa the middle of the Organized Death Century.
"The good in people"- is what victims who have suffered "the worst in people" get from loved ones and strangers alike. It is no doubt a bitter-sweet band-aid to slap on the geyser of a hemophiliac Earth.
You can't have one without the other. As for focusing on uplifting stories with no sting. They don't exist.
What do I personally take away from the documentation of the events at Jonestown? Fear? Pleasure in being entertained by what men are capable ONCE AGAIN?
If ever I am in a place (which.. I guess we all are everyday on different levels) with my children, and I look around and think... "this seems fucked up and insane" I will have that kind of mistrust because of Jonestown and every other horrible story of what man is capable of. Your position can always benefit from an arsenal of what is possible in extremes.. both good and bad.
This stuff is painfully fascinating.. not arousing.
Unspeakable, I think you nailed it at the end.
And history does repeat itself in a certain sense. I'm not talking about some sort of karma-esque Scrooge bullshit fantasy when I talk about history. What I'm saying is that we are doomed to repeat history because reality isn't linear. Our perception in the form of documentation might try to adhere to linear understanding, but reality follows its own direction, and in that, we can never escape the sum total of who we are and what we do.
And we will either evolve into something better, or we will simply sink with the finite rock we have come from. If we can't evolve however, maybe we don't deserve salvation.
My side of the fence ought to be clearly seen, and I imagine it most certainly is.
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